jennythereader | A Pebble in my Shoe

So am I (and I'm an agnostic), but unfortunately that's because the visible nutjobs trumpet the word "Christian" and the normal ordinary people who happen to be Christians don't.

The more liberal and moderate denominations could definitely do more to promote their vision of Jesus's teachings. Unfortunately the nutjobs all seem to have bigger budgets.

My impression is that the nutjobs have bigger budgets because there are actually more of them.

I work in an urban ghetto, in population which has historically been 99.9% Catholic (50% Italian, 50% Latino). But what I'm seeing in my office is large numbers of ex-Catholics, who identify themselves as "Just Christian" and "Non-denominational", but who, it turns out, have fallen in with particularly conservative, xenophobic, belligerent Protestant churches. There is, in fact, a social movement among right-wing Protestant churches to brand themselves as Christian-Just-Christian, insisting they don't belong to any specific denomination, and thereby rebrand all Christianity as them-just-them.

It is being highly successful among these lower income folks who were raised Catholic (and I saw evidence of it when I was working in a predominantly Black, raised-Baptist neighborhood, too). This is also, of course, quite popular among our prisoners.

It fits very neatly in with the Alcoholics Anonymous/Narcotics Anonymous approach, too, which is flagrantly Protestant, but which bills itself as not specific to any faith. It's amazing how many patients I've had for whom all the meaningful introduction to religion they've ever had was in AA/NA (the CCD they had in grade school didn't stick); and from there, "Christian" churches which stress being saved, testifying to unbelievers, and the judgment of a wrathful-yet-loving God, are a pretty natural step.

These folks are notable in that they know approximately nothing about actual Christian teaching. I mean, even the basics. Their attraction to religion is the deal it offers them, "if you do X, you'll get Y." Y might be a cushier afterlife, it might be an insurance policy against future misfortune, it might be relief from intolerable negative feelings in the here-and-now, but the whole point of religious belief for them is maximizing the value they get from the minimal possible effort. That they have no idea what the Ten Commandments actually contain, what the Sermon on the Mount says, who the apostles were, who Judas was, what the difference is between Catholicism or Protestantism (actual question!), or really anything other than "Jesus died for your sins" (maybe.) And they certainly don't have any idea of what "their" religion forbids them; the idea that religions typically make some things against the rules, is something that makes them squirmy -- or blank.

Boy, there are a lot of these people.

So that's the face of "Christianity" I see daily. Not on anybody's news, just walking into our clinic.

I think you guys got a problem. And it goes way, way, WAY beyond just a PR problem, and way, way, WAY beyond just a "few nutjob".

There is a cultural war on for the heart and soul, and very definition of "Christian". I don't think your side is winning.

All of that disturbs me on a very deep level.

Got to say I agree. If someone tells me they're a "Christian," I have a very visceral reaction. If someone tells me they're Catholic or Anglican or heck... even Baptist, I don't.

The people who use the WORD "Christian" on a regular basis are just SO often the people who frigging terrify me.

That's true. Somebody who just calls themself Christian, without identifing with a specific denomination, does seem to run a greater chance of being a nut of some sort.

It also holds true for churches. Non-denominational churches seem to be much more conservative than affiliated ones.

I've been seeing a lot of this, and agree and sympathize.

I'm atheist, and was raised partially "Christians are intolerant bigots who are totally conservative and Republican and responsible for all evils," but there were always exceptions, and the world is so much bigger than that.

Religious nut-jobs who are anti-everything are more "religious nut-jobs who are anti-everything" than they are Christian, or Jewish or Muslim or atheist or whatever faith or path they might follow.

You can't even say it is one specific sect of Christianity, since Episcopalian, or Lutheran or Baptist or Catholic, opinions and politics seem to vary sect by sect, parish by parish, church by church, parishioner by parishioner.

But it's always easier to generalize (oh hai see what I did thar?).

See, I can completely understand people not being able to see the subtle differences between closely related denominations (Methodist and Episcopalian, for example).

What really irks me are the folks who look at somebody like Phelps or the guy who's been predicting the Rapture (Camping, I think) and act as if because those idiots call themselves Christian then that's what all Christians believe.

I was raised Methodist and United Church of Christ, and still believe in what Jesus preached. Beyond that my beliefs morph from day to day.

I do think part of it is a PR problem. I remember during Bush's presidency, there were a couple of different groups that popped up for promoting "we aren't all right wing bigoted hateful nutjobs just because we're Christian," and I was glad to see them, but I found them because I was looking, and not because they made national news.

Unfortunately, hatred and bigotry are sexier, newswise, than even controversy. So Fred Phelps makes national news and stays in the public memory, while the fight within the United Methodist Church over acceptance of homosexuality is largely under the radar of most folks.

And some nut burning the Koran makes news, while many churches, regardless of their overall politics, run soup kitchens and homeless shelters and otherwise aid the needy without a lot of national press unless something goes wrong.

I also have a reaction when people say "catholic" but mean "Christian."

A Pebble in my Shoe

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