That doesn't take into consideration the time and effort to create the scarves, the costs to list them, to package up the ones that sell, the costs for the packaging, etc...
It also depends on what color and type of dyes you are buying, some good, high quality silk or fiber reactive dyes, are not cheap. In fact, they are downright expensive.
Same with the scarves. Some silks are easily 5.00 PER scarf, or more.
The scarves they are selling are closer to $2. Most of the marbled look scarves involve a solid color and sprinkling salt on the fabric. I thought about playing with silk dyes and painting... it's the stretcher frames that stopped me. That and a distinct lack of spare time.
I do this for a living, or try to. I KNOW what they cost. I also know exactly how much certain fiber reactive dyed for use with those scarves cost, what it takes in terms of my time and my energy to create ONE of my scarves. I also know how much it costs to simply list a scarf and sell it (20 cents to list, 3.5% of the sale), as well as how much it cost for packaging that I use and what it costs to ship.
Now, given this is my JOB, if I don't pay myself, then, yes, I could probably sell a scarf for roughly 20.00 and make a profit. Especially if they don't donate anything.
But given that I value my time, my energy and my talent far more than that, and given the fact that I donate 50% of my proceeds from each sale, I simply cannot sell a scarf at bare bottom prices. Which is what a lot of people do.
Yes, Dharma is relatively cheap, IF you only buy the Habotai, IF you only use certain sizes. I don't just use Habotai, I don't just use the smaller sizes. I use Crepe De Chine, Stone washed Crepe De Chine, Habotai, Charmeuse, etc, etc... as well as a wider range of sizes.
That adds up.
Then you add in the cost of certain fiber reactive dyes, that I do not buy from Dharma, and in order to get any sort of profit from THOSE, you need to buy in large quantities, and for certain colors, THAT adds up.
Add in Soda Ash, Synthrapol, PVC pipe for Shibori if you decide to go that route, string for shibori, Thioxurea for discharging, beads, FireLine, charms, semi precious stones, whathaveyou if you decide to embellish them, whatever soap and fabric softener you prefer to hand wash your finished piece in after rinsing the excess dye out, your water bill, your electric bill, and gee, it's not simply 5.00 to create one scarf anymore.
But customers don't see that. They see a gorgeous scarf at a low price, and they see another gorgeous scarf at a higher price and automatically want the cheaper price. And expect that everyone should sell at the cheaper price.
That's where I'm coming from.
Yes, it is a nice thing they are doing, donating their profits, etc. But for them, this appears to be mostly a hobby.
I don't. I do this as my job and people coming in saying, oh it only costs such and such amount to create one of these, is wrong. That would be like telling a famous painter that because their paints were so cheap, that their canvases were so cheap, they should sell their artwork cheap too. It doesn't work that way.
I didn't say that you had to sell yours for the same price. I simply observed that a profit could be made at the price they were charging. I'm also obviously not your market, since I would choose a solid or mottled scarf over one with beads and stuff. Trying to make a living as an artist is a challenge. That is part of the reason that I have a regular job, that prevents me from having as much time for artistic endeavors.
2.00 for the scarf blank. 2.00 for the mailing of said blank to you. 2-3.00 for a 2oz container of ONE Procion MX dye color, depending on the color, of which you can get maybe 2-3 scarves out of IF you skimp on the dye, so say 1.00 for dye. maybe 10.00 for the water and electric you use to dye the scarf. maybe 50 cents -1.00 for packaging, depending on packaging. then 2-3.00 for mailing if you just stick it in a plain envelope and go regular mail.
Total- 18.50-19.00. You make ONE DOLLAR. That's it. That's not even minimum wage.
That's not even paying yourself for your time or the cost to list the scarf.
IF you list the scarf at 20.00 on, say, Etsy. Well, there goes another 20 cents right off the bat. You sell the scarf, there goes another 25-30 cents, roughly. You use PayPal for receiving payments, there goes ANOTHER 25-30 cents.
That's another 70-80 cents.
You make exactly 20-30 CENTS. That's it.
Could you make a living on 20-30 cents per item sold?
The only way you could make a living at that income, is if you sold in bulk to retailers who turned around and sold at a markup to other customers.
But that's not the point.
The entire point is a customer is going to see one price, then go elsewhere, see another price and expect to get that item at the lower price, because to THEM , it's only worth the lower price.
It doesn't matter if there's one solid color or 2, 3, even 4 different colors. They see a cheaper price, they are going to want every silk scarf at that cheaper price, because to them, anything else is overpriced, and in their minds, they can get the same thing at a cheaper price.
I think I bought half a dozen scarves when I thought I *might* possibly play with them as a hobby. I would have bought more, but I knew there was a good possibility that I wouldn't end up doing anything with them.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
branchandroot
no subject
Date: 2008-12-01 09:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-01 09:50 pm (UTC)On the other hand, if they're happy with their profits, I'm just as happy that the prices are low.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-01 10:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-01 11:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-01 11:06 pm (UTC)It also depends on what color and type of dyes you are buying, some good, high quality silk or fiber reactive dyes, are not cheap. In fact, they are downright expensive.
Same with the scarves. Some silks are easily 5.00 PER scarf, or more.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-02 12:30 am (UTC)The scarves they are selling are closer to $2. Most of the marbled look scarves involve a solid color and sprinkling salt on the fabric. I thought about playing with silk dyes and painting... it's the stretcher frames that stopped me. That and a distinct lack of spare time.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-02 01:15 am (UTC)I do this for a living, or try to. I KNOW what they cost. I also know exactly how much certain fiber reactive dyed for use with those scarves cost, what it takes in terms of my time and my energy to create ONE of my scarves. I also know how much it costs to simply list a scarf and sell it (20 cents to list, 3.5% of the sale), as well as how much it cost for packaging that I use and what it costs to ship.
Now, given this is my JOB, if I don't pay myself, then, yes, I could probably sell a scarf for roughly 20.00 and make a profit. Especially if they don't donate anything.
But given that I value my time, my energy and my talent far more than that, and given the fact that I donate 50% of my proceeds from each sale, I simply cannot sell a scarf at bare bottom prices. Which is what a lot of people do.
Yes, Dharma is relatively cheap, IF you only buy the Habotai, IF you only use certain sizes. I don't just use Habotai, I don't just use the smaller sizes. I use Crepe De Chine, Stone washed Crepe De Chine, Habotai, Charmeuse, etc, etc... as well as a wider range of sizes.
That adds up.
Then you add in the cost of certain fiber reactive dyes, that I do not buy from Dharma, and in order to get any sort of profit from THOSE, you need to buy in large quantities, and for certain colors, THAT adds up.
Add in Soda Ash, Synthrapol, PVC pipe for Shibori if you decide to go that route, string for shibori, Thioxurea for discharging, beads, FireLine, charms, semi precious stones, whathaveyou if you decide to embellish them, whatever soap and fabric softener you prefer to hand wash your finished piece in after rinsing the excess dye out, your water bill, your electric bill, and gee, it's not simply 5.00 to create one scarf anymore.
But customers don't see that. They see a gorgeous scarf at a low price, and they see another gorgeous scarf at a higher price and automatically want the cheaper price. And expect that everyone should sell at the cheaper price.
That's where I'm coming from.
Yes, it is a nice thing they are doing, donating their profits, etc. But for them, this appears to be mostly a hobby.
I don't. I do this as my job and people coming in saying, oh it only costs such and such amount to create one of these, is wrong. That would be like telling a famous painter that because their paints were so cheap, that their canvases were so cheap, they should sell their artwork cheap too. It doesn't work that way.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-02 02:47 am (UTC)Trying to make a living as an artist is a challenge. That is part of the reason that I have a regular job, that prevents me from having as much time for artistic endeavors.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-02 03:14 am (UTC)That's-
2.00 for the scarf blank.
2.00 for the mailing of said blank to you.
2-3.00 for a 2oz container of ONE Procion MX dye color, depending on the color, of which you can get maybe 2-3 scarves out of IF you skimp on the dye, so say 1.00 for dye.
maybe 10.00 for the water and electric you use to dye the scarf.
maybe 50 cents -1.00 for packaging, depending on packaging.
then 2-3.00 for mailing if you just stick it in a plain envelope and go regular mail.
Total- 18.50-19.00. You make ONE DOLLAR. That's it. That's not even minimum wage.
That's not even paying yourself for your time or the cost to list the scarf.
IF you list the scarf at 20.00 on, say, Etsy. Well, there goes another 20 cents right off the bat. You sell the scarf, there goes another 25-30 cents, roughly. You use PayPal for receiving payments, there goes ANOTHER 25-30 cents.
That's another 70-80 cents.
You make exactly 20-30 CENTS. That's it.
Could you make a living on 20-30 cents per item sold?
The only way you could make a living at that income, is if you sold in bulk to retailers who turned around and sold at a markup to other customers.
But that's not the point.
The entire point is a customer is going to see one price, then go elsewhere, see another price and expect to get that item at the lower price, because to THEM , it's only worth the lower price.
It doesn't matter if there's one solid color or 2, 3, even 4 different colors. They see a cheaper price, they are going to want every silk scarf at that cheaper price, because to them, anything else is overpriced, and in their minds, they can get the same thing at a cheaper price.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-02 03:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-01 11:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-01 10:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-01 11:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-01 11:12 pm (UTC)They'd be great as a liner scarf with a cashmere over them.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-01 11:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-01 11:29 pm (UTC)